If you haven't heard it well, if you were dumb enough to not understand what this conversation was about, the woman is saying she didn't trust Obama saying he was an Arab. She threw "Arab" as an insult as if it was equivalent to criminal or pedophile.
OK, there are racists in American, some low-life idiots who haven't read a book since they've graduated from third grade, we'll always see them around, reminding us that the drawbacks of democracy is having those human-looking creatures with single-digit IQs the right to vote as everyone else.
But the response from the Senator who has a decent chance of becoming the next president was despicable. "He's not an Arab. Obama is a decent family man"
To any American who doesn't trust Arabs, stop sending your kids to US universities because these elitist institutions are filled with well-educated Arab professors. Stop bragging about going to the moon because NASA has plenty of Arab scientists and if you get sick think twice before stopping at any emergency room because there are many many Arab doctors in almost every hospital in the United States. Well maybe not all hospitals, just the good ones. They should stop watching press conferences by the US presidents because Helen Thomas, one of the most famous journalists in US history and an Arab, may jump in with an embarrassing question. They should listening to the America top 40 because it was founded by an Arab.
The list goes on with many Arabs who have served the US not asking what their country could do for them but what they could do for their country (first said by an Arab, not JFK). All what they wanted back is some appreciation, some acknowledgment that they're just as equal as everyone else. And when someone throws racist remarks against them on national TV they would have expected s Senator who claims to be patriotic to defend the very basics of being an American but instead he continues to bash Arabs, placing himself before his country. I'm hoping for McCain to fall (and maybe break a hip) on November 4th and for Americans to realize that Arabs will always be around in the US, and if they didn't like that they should go back to their original countries.
Posts
52 comments:
Bad, bad McCain response and TOTALLY lost opportunity for affirming Arab "decent family men", of which there are legion.
I am SO sorry. :P
Shame!
For two semesters we were 4 Arabs, Jordanian, Egyptian, Syrian, and Yemeni, TAing with another two Americans 500 American Students. This is one course in one university. Imagine how many Arabs in the American universities teaching those parents' kids.
Well said Hareega.
Well said Hareega! Well, said!
I know, the response infuriated me more than the comment!
You can expect something stupid from an ignorant everyday person who listens extensively to Fox and thinks all Arabs are terrorists, but to have McCain tell her that what she is is saying is wrong because Obama is a decent man, good family man and therefore NOT AN ARAB is an insult to millions of people everywhere
Where is the uproar? Where is the indignation? Where are all the complaints?
This is not an ignorant man (not in theory anwyay), but a SENATOR in the US, one who (as you pointed out) may become PRESIDENT of the US).
Arab Americans need to speak OUT and DO IT NOW. Arab leaders should also take offense and make him issue a public apology, something that would embarass him further than his "that guy" crap.
What if this had been any other ethnicity? Why do we stand for this shit?
Like you said, many Arabs dedicate years of their life and service to this country, we belong here as much as any other ethnicity and we love this country as equally as other ethnicities. And unless we start defending ourselves, we won't get the respect we deserve in OUR COUNTRY
Shameful, wallahi
Now that I have listened to this, and I don't think it's as bad as I thought when I read your words. First of all, he doesn't say first off "He is not an Arab" as if being an Arab is a bad thing. Twice he says “He’s a decent family man citizen" then once "that I just happen to have some disagreements with on fundamental issues.” In the the end, he said "No,no, he's not...(didn't use the word Arab)" meaning to me "what you are thinking", "Your fears are baseless if they are based on your perception of his Arabness".
The woman herself couldn't seem to find the word to use, so she settled with 'Arab', and i have heard that word used with a lot more contempt than I felt she used. She just sounded scared.
He still could have unpacked his last sentence in a way that would have been redemptive.
Anyway, just to stir the pot :)
while I don't like McCain, I don't think that this was his intent. But he should have said that being an arab is not a bad thing, but you know, he is trying to win an election. If he defended arabs and Obama in the same sentence that would have meant he lost any hope in winning.
My two cents.
I know kinzi is now like WHAT ;)
On kinzi:
"She just sounded scared."
She sounded racist and ignorant.
I dont' think obama's response here was despicable although the hypocrisy comes through loud and clear in his tone of voice.
He wants to let the crowd dish out the insults, and still sound respectful. Why else would he keep saying nice things about obama, then waiting for the crowd to disagree.
About the woman, I wouldn't call her scared, rather completely ignorant. If she said He is Kenyan. I would have understood, because his father is Kenyan, but once she said he is Arab, it means she was listening to the racists and idiots who keep comparing the name obama to osama.
While we're on the subject of osama, why is it such a bad name ? I happen to have friends and colleagues whose first name is osama. Some of them happen to be very nice people, others are not.
Clearly another desperat Mccain Palin smear campaign tactic at its worst.
They're acting like school children, seriously.
oops
obama's response = mccain's response
:)
S.T.O.M.
You give him too much credit.
If I were to speak of "feelings" as opposed what he's doing, I sense he's worried that this is going to be embarrassing for his "better informed" supporters.
A few years ago in a Canadian election, the opposition chose to make fun of Jean Chretien's mouth paralysis. The people felt bad for Jean and the sneaky tactic backfired.
This is more from the woman:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0nSdNVFoAMw&feature=related
جيمس زغبي... أكاديمي و محلل سياسي أمريكي عربي يرد على العداء ضد العرب
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zogby/john-mccain-i-am-an-arab_b_133884.html
kinzi, maybe you can make the case that McCain did not directly say it, but his campaign frequently (and Hillary's to less extent) tried to portray Obama as a scary man because he might have been an Arab or a Muslim.
Jaraad, a lot
Q... thanks for reading
bella... we don't need an uproar, Arabs could affect the media's attitude towards them and make sure those who are running for office watch whatever they say before they say it.
Straight Talk on McCain... I don't think McCain have created those monsters, they've always been there. I think once they relaized a man like Obama who doesn't have a traditional American name and is black and at one point was a Muslim (13% believe he still is, seriously) they got really really scared.
Hani... when someone who's running is portrayed as a victim and an underdog just like McCain-Palin are trying to do, people feel sorry for them and vote for them. Just another proof a lot a lot of people are very dumb.
Sami and Sari... thank for the links
Mohanned,3anad, shu?? No, no, I am pleased we almost agreed on something!
Heh-heh, good thing none of those ignorant Americans have seen some Arab taxi drivers. THEN they would be scared.
Hareega.. of course we need an uproar! Would it have passed by unnoticed if she had used the word "Black" instead of "Arab"?
No, of course not, people would have been furious, and rightfully so.
Would it have passed unnoticed if she had referred to him as a Jew instead? Do we not deserve the same respect as our brethren of more popular ethnicities/religions?
There are bad people everywhere. A small group of Arabs have given a bad name to ALL Arabs and unless we stand up and start defending ourselves, this ignorant racism will never stop.
Not that we should have to defend ourselves, but that is a whole nother thing..
I did check out the link that Sari left, and while Dr. Zogby made a great statement, the comments were AMAZING. If anyone needs to restore/refresh their faith in the greatness of American people after watching the ignorant comments by some McCain supporters, read those comments.
Or check out some comments on some Facebook groups.
Or check out this article: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/campbell.brown.obama/index.html
The true spirit of America shines bright through these comments and I could not be more proud.
McCain camp needs to stop dividing Americans (of ALL races and religions) and focus more on UNITING us all, especially in these troubled times.
and re Kinzi's 2nd comment: with all due respect (I know you support McCain and so you may be a teensy bit biased) but even though he didn't come right out and say it, he did very obviously imply it. If that were not what he were truly trying to say, don't you think he would have issued something from his camp or sto clarify that this is indeed NOT what he meant?
Sadly, I do not believe the McCain camp is interested in perpetuating reality, but rather trying to keep the fear alive for the extreme right wing in order to further separate Americans in an attempt win this election based on fear.
“Mccain (about Obama):He’s a decent family man citizen" <----- After watching that clip elsewhere something really obvious hit me. The ignorant lady was saying Obama is an Arab. Mccain responded by saying not he's a family man citizen.
What's wrong with the picture ?
How many Americans when talking to other Americans call themselves citizens ? I think the idea is to imply Obama is NOT American. This is consistent with the mccain campaign's general theme recently of "who is obama, he is not like you and me", and with the way Mccain referred to Obama as "that one".
It all adds up to build the real picture.
Bella, you are so cute, thanks for not blowing me off the blogosphere! Of course we are all biased to our own choices. There is something to the McCain campaign to emphasize his 'otherness', see my first comment :)
YET...in terms of average Americans, Obama IS 'other' and it has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. I quite like his international-ness, his charisma, his dreams for change. But I am not the average American anymore either, after twenty years out of the country.
He was raised in a very 'other' environment, from childhood, a very left-centered one. That left-centered life continued through his education, academia and political life. I see it in his voting patterns (as a registered voter in Illinois).
I lived in two socialist countries, traveled extensively in moderately Communist countries. I lived practically what he is proposing as untried ideology in America, and it scares the **** out of me. Especially in an unstable economic situation.
I WISH he was Arab! I would have a better understanding of how his mind worked. Too much flip-flop, wishy-washing, duch and dodge. Give me an Arab any day. :)
Actually if you look at the history an economic slump is the best time to vote for someone like Obama.
As this graph (change hxxp to http)(hxxp://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm) of the us debt clearly shows, Reagan, and the two Bushes are responsible for exacerbating the national debt to insane proportions. The graph shows that the carter and Clinton era were the only time were the US came close to even (the parts in blue). During the Reagan era it goes nearly straight up. If you want the technical figure (hxxp://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/pdf/hist.pdf)
Finally The Iraq war isn't doing anything to decrease spending, and the only thing McCain wants to discuss about the war is how many more troops to send (the surge). Whereas Obama true to his supporters was against the war from the beginning even after the actual invasion occurred he never budged. He wasn't swayed by a false sense of patriotism like many of his peers. There is nothing wishy-washy about that.
Reasons to vote for Obama:
1- He is much less likely to start a war than McCain.
2- His running mate is more qualified to become president than McCain's running mate. Sarah Palin is incredibly dumb. If there is one thing Americans should stop for a second and think how bad things are going in America, it's how this person has become so close to becoming the new president. She's even dumber than George Bush.
3- Because Obama understands the sufferings of us Arabs because he's an Arab (ok I'm just kidding)
4- The people surrounding Obama (those crazy pot-smoking high sex-addict green liberals) are much better for the US and the world than the hypocritic neo-cons that have surrounded McCain.
I don't hate McCain, despite whatever negative remarks he may have made. I truly believe he's a noble man who often had the guts to say whatever he believed in, unfortunatley had to change a lot to suit his candidacy as the reprenstative of Republicans in this election.
And McCain, if you're reading this, once you -Jesus willing- lose this election, please come back to Arizona and fix the only freeway we have in Tucson, it's killing me
This whole US presidency campaign is probably the most obvious long-running presentation on the hypocrisy that's running the world.
It's amusing how the fate of the world is resting on the decisions by the dumbest population on the planet. Whoever wins probably does not understand the burden they are going to carry. If they did they'd both bail out.
Hareega, thanks for being a bastion of humorous and informative dialogue in the midst of all the slander. Tell ya, the condition of the streets are a TRUE indicator of leadership!!!
Hani, thanks for that...I will look it up :). I didn't mean wishy-washy about the war, but about his voting record.
KJ, thanks for the compliment. :P We may be the dumbest on the planet, but we did pretty well for being such a nation of hard-working red-neck retard immigrants. Yes, we have blown it many major ways, maybe irrepairable.
We need to get back to the basics of the golden rule. In fact, I kindof think the whole world needs to also. Whatever color the neck, the whole of humanity are a bunch of ungovernable wretches who just manage to get by without destroying one another in the process. Sometimes.
KJ calling Americans dumb is uncalled for. You're talking about a couple hundred million people some of them are the smartest in the world. The more democracy a country has, the more people take it for granted, and the less involved they become in politics. Since things are politically complicated in our part of the world, we must know more.
Hareega, to add to your list:
- Palin is an evangelist and not in a good way (think praise the lord and pass the ammunition). As a contradiction, in her youth she used to apply for beauty pageants, and won the title Ms Wasilla 1984.
- That said, she's an all-the-way Iraq war supporter (enough said), a member of the NRA, and an all-around reactionary. Whenever someone pushes her on the injustice of the iraq war, She will say my son is fighting for our country in Iraq as we speak. ummm hello your country is half way across the planet from Iraq!
- Once chosen on the mccain ticket, she refused interviews until she got long cram sessions on how to respond!
- She has a history of nepotism and also abused her job position to try to get the public safety commissioner to fire a state trooper who was in a custody battle with Palin's sister. When the commissioner refused, she fired him which shows a total lack of honor. When the mccain campaign needed someone to sling the dirt at Obama, it was usually Palin who did the dirty deed so McCain can keep looking presidential afterward.
- She used a free (yahoo email) address to conduct state business as governor (shows poor judgment), when her account got hacked, and the contents got published on the internet, she deleted the account and all included emails, so that she could deny anything implicating found in the emails.
- when the press ask her for documents related to her being Gov, her office charges them nearly $1000 per hour for their retrial and claims it takes several hours. (One quote for retrieving state emails was 15 million, talk about abusing your position)
- Mccain is 72 years old, so there's a good chance he will die, and Palin will be President.
- Mccain was one of the (keating five), he and 5 other senators received large amounts of money to help Mccain's very good friend (Charles Keating) get away with robbing pensioners of their savings in a loan scam. Mccain's wife and her father invested millions in Keating's mall. Mccain's family took free rides on keating's jet (when this came out they reimbursed him). Keating was convicted for fraud racketeering and conspiracy, and this whole thing happened when mccain had only been a senator for a couple of years, so he was corrupt from the start.
More here:
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five
- Given theses 2 scandals in Mccain and Palins past, the best thing they could come up with against obama is that he is not that he did anything wrong at all, but that he met a man who more than 40 years ago (when obama was in 2nd grade!) used to do anti-vietnam war sit-ins and anti-gov bombings. Palin (in a flat out lie) called this paling around with terrorists. If blaming him for knowing someone who committed crimes 4 decades ago is the best they can do, it stands as a glowing recommendation really.
More here:
hxxp://fightthesmears.com/articles/22/AyersSmear
I forgot, Palin insists that the fact she can see Russia from her house makes her more qualified on foreign policy.
When Katie couric asked her if this was true, Palin insisted it is!
Hani, thanks for your words to KJ, I felt better. There is enough Western bad without all the bad words.
Hani, after I started reading Kos HuffPo I found some equally right-wing blogs (whoa, didn't know about THAT side of the blogosphere)that specifically address the fight-the-smears stuff you mentioned. I learned an important lesson in both places: each present the news in a way that benefits their candidate. Big Duh, but it is good to check both to balance out. Fight the smears is hardly independent fact-finding, right?
Now I'm gonna have to find it for you! Darn, I wish I had more energy for this.
Kinzi, absolutely the site is only fighting anti-obama smears, but unlike many blogs, it tends to link reputable news sources whenever it disputes a rumor.
Based on the news networks and other news sources. I don't think it's unfair to say that the "paling around with terrorists" comment Palin made is not only incorrect, but also deliberately misleading, and outright slander. In the UK she would be sued for sizable sums for making this type of claim without solid proof.
Also in interviews I've seen with Palin, she directly considered Obama's willingness to negotiate with Syria and Iran without preconditions "Palin around with terrorists".
I think negotiating with your enemies is even more important than negotiating with your friends. At least if you don't want to start another war!
Kinzi, I agree that there's a group of democrates and liberals who are just as blind as republicans in their support of their party. But the accusations that Obama is facing are totally new. Being accused of terrorism and that assumption that many Republican supporters have is that he wants to hurt America. They're scared of him just like they're being scared of some criminal who just escaped from his cell, and of course there's a lot of racism in this. I expected this to have been much worse if it was someone other than McCain running, like Romney or Guliani, or Palin herself. These people areound McCain are the ones who are absolutely nuts, that's why you'll find many people even old ones who have always voted Republican who are not willing to vote for a Republican on this election (I hope you'll be one of them- Nader needs your vote)
KJ... if there are a few lessons I have learned from the past few years is how easily 300 million people can be controlled by the media even when they have all the resources avaiable for them to know better. I'm a little surprised how this election have made more Americans especially young people get involved more in politics; maybe they've learned it the hard way after they really suffered from the bad policies of their president and congress but they're realzing how important it is to vote the right way. Overall I don't think they're as dumb as people portray them to be, but they should be definitely be more politically involved than they've been.
Hani Obaid... that email hacking of Palinw as really funny. As one comedian said , "this shows that nobody in the Palin family uses protection!"
No obaid!
It's Hani, or you can call me "that one" :)
Kinzi I can now vouch for the data in that graph 100% as I took the time to plot (and interpret) the whitehouse data directly myself:
(change hxxp to http)
hxxp://blog.haniobaid.com/2008/10/19/us-national-debt-by-president/
The interpretation of course reflects my biased opinion but that data is undeniably embarrassing for republican presidential administrations of the past 30 years.
Hani, I would trust you as a fact-checker and a superior economist to me, but MSM I don't trust these days. :)I would vote for Clinton or Carter over Obama if the issues were fiscal only, and neither of those contenders faced economic issues like what we have today. I'm not a straight Rep voter. In fact, I think I may have voted for Obama as Senator, I can't remember if I voted in that election.
Bill Ayers IS scary, and it is obviously Sen Obama has down-played that relationship. As he has down-played others. I don't think it is slander. Saying Sen. Obama IS a terrorist may qualify as slander, but she didn't say that. What happens to people who disagree with Senator do get slandered, and are investigated to a degree even he (nor his pals)hasn't.
Palin's email account, remember, was CLEAN, and hacking like that is a crime. They didn't find the incriminating stuff the kind hoped for. Now, if someone hacked Biden, would the press handle it differently? Imagine the treasure trove there.
I am SO glad we don't have Britain's slander laws.
Gov Palin entered a beauty pageant for scholarship money, she was not a career pageant gal. Very common way for small town girls to get scholarships.We Evangelicals are allowed to wear one-piece bathing suits ;).
BTW, an 'evangelist' is someone who actively influences people to become followers of Christ. She, like me, is an "Evangelical", which means we believe in the gospels about Jesus. For me, that is a lovely thing. Like Muslims, the only press we get is when our brothers do stupid things. Do you think I represent my faith ok? Do I scare you too? :)
Palin made enemies because she cleaned up junk in Alaska. the bro-in-law tasered his kid and threatened the first fam with no consequences (did you know a random voter told a polster she didn't like O's leaving dead babies on the floor of hospitals and the pollster sent the SS after her saying she threatened the Se's life?). Monegan was fired for insubordination. Even the report is ambigious, I'll give it a poor judgement call. Yea, a guy threatens my fam, my hubby will step up.
The right to bear arms is a part of our constitution that Obama wants to severely restrict. Instead of outlawing automatic weapons (which NEED more regulation) he focuses on restricted rifles and ammo. That is the bread and butter of what made us able to create and defend our country from within.
Dr. Hareega, maybe I'll throw my vote away for you! YOU could change healthcare, yea? ;) Hey, according to the polls, this is Sen. Obama's election anyway, right?
I never even mentioned abortion. I'm ok to leave abortion legal,not my view, but most Americnas are ok with 1st term abortion...but no further. Obama has said he would take away all restrictions to abortion, up to the minute of birth. It would be tax-payer funded and doctors would be forced to perform them against their consciences. I know doctors who would leave hospitals over that, creating another health-care dilemma.
Hareega,
1)Another war? Did I miss something?
2)Experience is not a good reason to vote for Sen Obama. McCain isn't dead or dying. Dumbness is also not a good reason, it seems Biden is uniquely gifted for saying dumb things. He must've used blonde plugs.
3) LOL! Hey, did you hear what Qaddafi said about him? Better get that quote on Fight the Smears Now!!
4) Heh-heh, cute. BUT...McCain has already put forth names for his cabinet, and the short list I saw all are dems, not reps nor neocons. (ok, I haven't researched each one for hidden neo-con tendencies, remember, I am still hypothyroid!)
If Sen. Obama wins, then God bless him and I will respect the choice of America and pray I was completely and totally wrong. If he pulls off half of what he has promised. I'll come back and say YOU TOLD ME SO a 1,000 times :)
Blessings on you two. Thanks for being bright lights of hope for positive discourse in a dismal campaign.
Kinzi,
Yes MSM has advertisers, owners, and agendas, but at least they have someone to answer to and a reputation to protect. We bloggers only have each other :)
If I could, I would vote for clinton (Bill not Hillary) over Obama as well.
I had you pegged as a die hard republican, I shouldn't do that!
Kinzi said:"Saying Sen. Obama IS a terrorist may qualify as slander, but she didn't say that"
That's what their supporters are saying not only that he's a terrorist, but an arab, and a muslim, and a 1 man terror cell! it seems this is being encouraged. Watch the video hareega linked above. You might ask Why should Mccain and Palin be responsible for what their supporters do ? Well, for the same reason someone would hold obama liable for something Ayers did nearly 50 years ago which is in no way his fault. This is the underlying implication of the whole "who is Barak Obama" and "obama isn't one of us" theme of M/P ads. Even if the worst of the obama/ayers link is true, it still seems benign compared to Mccain taking money from keating (who he was really palling aound with), then defending his illegal loan scam. To his credit he admitted it was the worst mistake of his life. I wonder what obama's worst mistake would be!
Kinzi said:"Palin's email account, remember, was CLEAN, and hacking like that is a crime."
I'm not disputing that its a crime, just that it's strange for a public official to use yahoo mail for official work, and stranger (to me) that once she recovered her account she erased everything. Don't know much about Biden but he's been around so long, and if he did something wrong, I'd imagine they would have dug it up by now.
Kinzi said:"I am SO glad we don't have Britain's slander laws."
I think both are extremes at. The American approach to freedom of speech and expression means neo-nazis, KKK, and organizations like NAMBLA can roam free. To defend the British side, you can damage a reputation just as much by implication as direct slander, and this is where it would be upto a judge to determine the difference.
Kinzi said:"Do you think I represent my faith ok? Do I scare you too? :)"
I think politics is one of the rare instances where discrimination by religion is ethical. After all it's a whole belief and behavior system. That said very few politicians would succeed in the US if they admitt they're atheist. I think Obama is one myself. I don't buy the idea that someone will find god in a church in chicago shortly before they embark on a political career.
The reason Palin scares me is not that she's Christian specifically. I'd be scared of anyone claiming to be religious (any religion) and going into politics. Based only on your posts and comments anyone can see how much comfort you take in your beliefs, how much hope, and strength they give you, and yet you somehow maintain the compassion for other people, I don't see in you the vanity and self righteousness many of the religious people I've met have.
Kinzi said: "That is the bread and butter of what made us able to create and defend our country from within. "
It seems to me the conditions under which that was necessary are no longer there. You have a standing Army ready to deal with external threats, police to deal with the internal, and a variety of none lethal options like tasers (I wish they'd let us have them in Jordan). Sure you can justify a small handgun for personal security, but rifles and machine guns should be reserved for law enforcement.
Kinzi said:"Obama has said he would take away all restrictions to abortion, up to the minute of birth. It would be tax-payer funded and doctors would be forced to perform them against their consciences."
That's really taking it too far. Any MSM source for that ? :)
Hani, great details, thanks for hanging in there til the end of a thread!
Regarding the last questions, I'll find it for you tomorrow. It is quotes from Sen. Obama's speeches.
Hani, here is the text of the Freedom of Choice Act, which senator Obama promised Planned Parenthood last year he would sign when in office.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.1173:
since I only know how to cut and paste one thing at a time, more to follow.
Hani, here is what I came up with:
"It's important to note at the outset that this congressional statute is often presented as codifying Roe v. Wade. Hence, if Roe was ever overturned, FOCA would prevent things from changing. While this is true, FOCA goes far beyond this.
The 2007 version of FOCA (for the House bill, see H.R. 1964; for the Senate bill, see S. 1173) includes the following provision:
A government may not
(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose:
(A) to bear a child;
(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or
(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or
(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.
Section 6 adds:
This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.
The section highlighted above in bold italics means that FOCA, if passed, will accomplish two things:
It would invalidate all current and future statutes, ordinances, regulations, administrative orders, decisions, policies, or practices--at any level of government--that regulate or restrict abortion in any way;
it would mandate taxpayer funds to be used at the state and federal level for abortion services (not to do so would discriminate against the "rights" of abortion set forth in the bill).
The National Organization of Women says that FOCA "would sweep away hundreds of anti-abortion laws, policies." Planned Parenthood says FOCA "would invalidate existing and future laws that interfere with or discriminate against the exercise of the rights protected."
What are some of these state laws?
All 50 states have abortion reporting requirements.
46 states have conscience-protection laws for individual health-care providers.
44 states have laws about parental notification.
40 states have laws restricting late-term abortions.
38 states have bans on partial-birth abortions.
33 states have laws requiring counseling before an abortion
16 states have laws about having ultrasounds before an abortion
Some people reading the Freedom of Choice Act notice that is says a woman has a "right to choose" "to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman".
A surface-reading of FOCA (which is seeking to codify Roe v. Wade) might suggest that there is a meaningful, legitimate restriction on late-term, post-viable abortions, namely that abortions are allowed only in cases where a woman would die or be physically harmed. But this simply isn't true.
Roe v. Wade was handed down on the same day as Doe v. Bolton, and Justice Blackmun said they were to be read together. Doe defines maternal health to include virtually any factor: "emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman's age." The effect is abortion on demand--abortion for any reason.
So to summarize this act ”which again, Barack Obama has promised to sign as his first order of business in the White House”abortion on demand will become codified, all regulations and restrictions will be stripped away, hospitals and physicians will not have a choice regarding the performance of abortion (since their accrediting agencies are approved by the federal government), teenagers will not have to tell their parents about an abortion, and taxpayers will be forced to pay for abortions at any stage of the pregnancy for any reason."
You can see my concern. I'm not being shrill about a 13 year old victim of rape, but that the gov can force a doctor to cut open the neck of a partially born living baby, killing it only inches from daylight and make me pay for it. That is what Sen. Obama said he would sign.
Kinzi first, I appreciate your taking the time.
I noticed both Hillary and Lieberman are among the sponsors for the law. So it's a good thing Mccain didn't get his first choice of VP, otherwise he'd have a hard time explaining this one.
It seems like the most important points that make this a horrible act even to someone pro-abortion like me:
1. It would force all hospitals, clinics and their employees to perform abortions even if they don't want to
2. no notification laws
3. It would mandate spending taxpayer money on abortions
From the letter of the law, it seems to me the 1st and 2nd are implied, but as I read from other sources, the 3rd item is only there based on the assumption that someone can use FOCA to cancel an amendment (Hyde amendment) that specifically bans the use of federal funding for abortions. So FOCA would remove the restrictions on using federal money for abortions as opposed to specifically requiring using it and providing free abortions.
Still the 1st two items alone are bad enough, and it would take little effort to make them sensible.
Hani, thanks for not pegging me a die-hard! And a compassionate christian...in churches I go to, I am the norm. Next time you run into one of my brothers who isn't tell, admonish them from me :)
Also, now that I have started reading 'right-wing' blogs to balance HuffPo & Kos , I really have not found any that consider him dangerous as a 'one man terror cell', and actually, the "Obama is a Muslim" diatribe was something Hilary started and the blogs I am reading (NRO, Powerline, Newsbusters, Gateway Pundit) don't even mention it.
You should listen to Ayers talk about his past, he is not sorry and justice was NOT served. Obama has deliberately downplayed the closeness of the relationship and worse, to the ideology, to the point of untruthfulness imo.
I'm getting a migraine, need to stop. Thanks for reading the FOCA bit, sorry I couldn't come up with a pretty document graphic :). I am sure Lieberman's involvement was the reason he was passed over for VP.
As you said, even for a pro-choice person, it is horrible. I was pro-choice until my mom started working for Planned Parenthood, and I saw how they misused their 'non-profit' status to create an abortion profit making machine that fueled the kind of lobby that could pass this kind of legislation. Talk about racism, they abort more black babies than any other race.
Thank YOU for listening. Too many people turn off before understanding the implications
Kinzi,
Unfortunate choice of words, sorry that was thoughtless of me :(
so many are compassionate to people like them ("the in group"). Only special people are compassionate to everyone. There's a big contradiction in the bible for me between Jesus and everyone else! Show me a Christian who takes Jesus as not only their savior but their role model, and I'll vote for them anytime :)
Hani, oh, no way offense taken!!! Really, I am serious, if you see someone who is a Christian who ISN'T living like Jesus, please call them on it. "Loving the brethren" is a good start, but Jesus said "Love your enemies". That has to include everyone inbetween, and to stop acting like some christian country club excluding folks from love. Arg. I better not start there. :)
Why do you expect so much? Appreciation? Acknowledgement? Come on? I've been living here for almost 4 years now, and I had my share of name calling and pigotry, but you know what? I would never complain about it, or try to change it even. Let them be themselves, their true selves for once. He actually thinks that arabs can not be decent? 7orr ho. I as well have my own thoughts about everyone else. And at the end I do not blame the old lady not even an ounce, if she watches Fox, being untrust worthy or undecent is the of what she could've said about Arabs. I'm so glad I read Edward Saed books long time ago.
Its not just McCain.
Our cultures are the war, and the very word Arab makes every hair on my back stand up.
I am sure there are many rational, peace loving Arabs, but I dont want to have anything to do with them, and I dont want them in my country.
I also love peace, and I dont want to bomb them or kill them. I just dont want to interact with them.
9/11 has scared me, and the picture of a bearded Arab male speaking with a heavy accent just puts me over the edge.
Anonymous said:"also love peace, and I dont want to bomb them or kill them. I just dont want to interact with them."
anonymous, how magnanimous of you ? you don't want to bomb us ? We're so grateful for your peace loving attitude.
your racism aside, the point was Obama isn't an Arab. Get your facts straight.
Also luckily for the rest of us it's only YOUR country in that you were born there, and the rest of America doesn't agree with you. Perhaps you should consider that the native Indians didn't want your ancestors in THEIR country either.
As to who you interact with, this is your choice. I would suggest judging people as individuals instead of based on your narrow view of what makes an Arab.
Finally try to look in the mirror once in a while, and see what your country is doing in Guantanamo, Abu ghreib, and the hundreds of thousands of civilians they killed in Iraq all of whom had nothing to do with 911.
Finally consider that you are blaming an entire group of people merely for speaking the same language as 19 criminals who are mostly Saudis (a US ally).
This is equivalent to me blaming citizens of the UK for the acts committed by David Koresh simply because they speak the same language and share the same religion.
I should also mention that your own countrymen at one point were so dissatisfied with their gov. they performed something very similar to 911. It's called the Oklahoma City Bombing. Please look it up. You'll find the perpetrators (Mcveigh and Nichols) were from New York and Michigan respectably. I don't see you discriminating against people from these fine states now ?
Finally need I remind you that the organization reportedly behind those 19 men claims the act was committed because they want US troops out of the middle east, and back on US soil where they belong. Need i also remind you that the US government used to fund and arm that group back when it suited its interests to do so.
Finally before you speak about who loves peace, answer the following questions:
1. Which country invented the H-Bomb ?
2. Which is the only country in the world ever to use nuclear weapons in mass murder ?
3. Which country is among the 2 largest researchers, sellers, stockpilers, and manufacturers of arms (conventional, biological, chemical and nuclear) in the world.
4. Which country has a record of supporting dictators like the Shah of Iran when those dictators are willing to do what it tells them, and simultaneously claiming to be a beacon of democracy ?
5. Which country has in the past simultaneously sold weapons to both Iran and Iraq while they were at war ?
6. Which country sold chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein, and then went to war claiming to be looking for the very weapons it sold him ?
Now tell me who's interested in peace ?
As I see it if you sell someone a weapons, you're responsible for what they do with it.
So stop selling weapons, send your troops home, then start talking about peace like you really mean it. Otherwise don't throw stones when your houses are made of glass.
Now pickup a history book for crying out loud!
Hani Obaid,
Sarcasm aside, I dont fundamentally disagree with you on the many injustices that our nation has perpetrated.
I dont care what the rest of America thinks of Arabs, my "opinion" is irrational and stemmed in fear. It is instinctual. What they did to Daniel Pearl is something I will never forget. He was not suspect. He was a journalist. Atleast the people in Abu Gharib were suspects that were locked up for "something".
You talk about history? Did you know that Afghanistan use to be a center of peaceful Buddhist spirituality until Islam was spread with force? Your people and your religion have blood on their hands as well. Islam was spread all through South East Asia with forceful conversations.
> Also luckily for the rest of us it's only YOUR country in that you were born there.
This is nonsense. Many Europeans feel the same way about Arabs and Islam. The Chinese dislike Islam and the Arabs as well. They just dont say it. They have no reason to.
> As to who you interact with, this is your choice. I would suggest judging people as individuals instead of based on your narrow view of what makes an Arab.
I tried that. But do you know what I discovered? Just as every bearded Arab is not a terrorist, every clean shaven "westernized" Arab in America is not a moderate either. Have you read about Mike Hawash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hawash
He lived in our own country, married an American woman, and he had the nerve to go to Afghanistan to kill Americans?
Regarding your allegations 1 - 6, you completely ignore the backdrop of the cold war. You are also ignoring the fact that Japan attached America first.
The US did not sell weapons to both Iran and Iraq. They supported Iraq overtly and passed on intelligence to Iran. That was a disgusting thing to do, and I cannot tell you how ashamed and sorry I am for the actions of my country.
Lastly, we might have our troops in Saudi Arabia, but it is only with the invitation of the Royal Family that we are in that country.
We will stop selling weapons when you will stop using your oil money to build large Mosques in our countries.
It is a battle of ideologies, and the stronger voice *will* win.
-Rob
We might have invented the H-Bomb, but we also invented computers and the internet. We also invented the Hubble Telescope.
The richest men in our country want to cure AIDS in Africa.
What do rich people in your country do in they get old? They marry little girls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hind_bint_Maktoum_bin_Juma_Al_Maktoum
What did you invent? Besides a religion that wants to take us back to the 6th century?
"What they did to Daniel Pearl is something I will never forget." <-------- Who is they ? It is certainly not Arabs even if that crime was committed by an Arab. Like you said, it's irrational. He was a journalist who wilingly thrust himself into a warzone, and FYI the murder of Pearl pales in comparison to all the civilians murdered in Iraq since the US armed forces landed there. Somehow it seems you think if the murderers wear a uniform or do it from a bomber up in the sky, that makes it ok, well I don't.
Your people and your religion have blood on their hands as well. <---------- Every people have blood ont heir hands, just at this very moment the US armed forces have more blood on their hands than anyone else. Particularily the ones in Iraq.
This is nonsense. Many Europeans feel the same way about Arabs and Islam. <------- The point was you are the exception. You don't just hate arabs, you want them all deported, and you admitt your fear isn't rational, so I'll leave it at that.
Have you read about Mike Hawash <------- Again you are judghing a race based on an individual.
You are also ignoring the fact that Japan attached America first. <------- Japan attacked a military base, they didn't completely oblitirate 2 entire cities complete with civilians. Even in a war that is considered a crime, in this case it was ignored because of the context you mentioned. Really what makes it all the worse is that it was unecessary to win the war. No one disputes this.
The US did not sell weapons to both Iran and Iraq. They supported Iraq overtly and passed on intelligence to Iran. <--------- Please lookup Iran Contra, then try again.
it is only with the invitation of the Royal Family that we are in that country.<------- It's not with the invitation of the Iraq people that you invaded. In fact most Iraqis (aside from the handful "in power") agree that Iraq under Saddam was much more peaceful than the new "democratic" Iraq your soldiers have created. This can beillustrated by the death toll alone which now exceeds all the death that occured during Saddam's entire rule. Not least of all because Al-Qaida never showed up in Iraq until you guys landed there. Not that I like Saddam, the point is you made things worse by invading.
We will stop selling weapons when you will stop using your oil money to build large Mosques in our countries. <-------- A madrassa is a school for children. A mosque is a place of worship. No matter how perverted an image the media sources you read give you of them. You're comparing this to a weapon designed to murder people ? Again irrational.
It is a battle of ideologies, and the stronger voice *will* win. <----------- Not really, I as an Arab don't consider myself at war with American culture, and if you are unhappy about mosques being built in america, organize politically, and fight it, I'd doubt you'd have many supporters in the US or Europe as you claim. Selling weapons in other countries has nothing to do with this. Again irrational!
We might have invented the H-Bomb, but we also invented computers and the internet. We also invented the Hubble Telescope. <---------- Again I'm not at war with American culture. I don't hate Americans. In fact I love their culture (NRA aside). I hate the fact that your soldiers invaded Iraq. I hate the fact that your government sells weapons to make profit out of murder. Enough said.
What do rich people in your country do in they get old? They marry little girls. <-------- you are really one sided in your hate and bigotry, aren't you ? Do you want me to lookup the internet and find hundreds of cases of US pedophiles ? or the thousands of priests accused of abusing little boys ?
What did you invent? <-------- what we did or did not invent is irrelevant to justifying murdering other human beings. The fact that you group Arabs together based on the language they speak only to blame them for individual acts is the problem here. Again look in the mirror before you point fingers Mr.
> Somehow it seems you think if the murderers wear a uniform or do it from a bomber up in the sky, that makes it ok, well I don't.
Do you even realize that these people are targeted for a reason?
To compare them to Daniel Pearl is meaningless? It is ironic that you talk about pointing fingers when the very basis of your argument is bigoted.
It would be easier for us to bomb entire buildings instead of sending our troops out.
Have you for a moment imagined a world where the American tax payers dont pay for the billions of dollars in AID we give to Egypt and Jordan?
Life under the iron grips of the communist regime in the former USSR would've been much worse.
If you have read anything about life in East Germany during the Russian occupation of that country, you will realize that the alternative is much much worse.
The Iran Contra affair also had its reasons. They wanted to free the 7 Americans.
We have to agree to disagree.
Do you even realize that these people are targeted for a reason? <--------- In afghanistan, yes. However 911 was given as an excuse for invading Iraq when the 2 were completely unrelated. In fact a CBS poll shortly after the Iraq invasion showed two thirds of americans thought Saddam was involved in 911. This was based on the misleading press releases from the Bush administration!
To compare them to Daniel Pearl is meaningless? It is ironic that you talk about pointing fingers when the very basis of your argument is bigoted. <-------- Comparing Pearl to the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed in Iraq is valid since both were innocent victims!
It would be easier for us to bomb entire buildings instead of sending our troops out. <----- the point was that the very basis of the invasion was invalid. No relation to 911, no WMD. Americans were lied to, period. This makes both sending out troops or bombers murder.
Have you for a moment imagined a world where the American tax payers dont pay for the billions of dollars in AID we give to Egypt and Jordan? <--------- All the Aid the US gives Jordan wouldn't match the catastrophic inflation caused by the rise in oil prices caused by the invasion of Iraq. Iraq used to give Jordan oil for free before the war! It's the least you could do considering you not only ruined the entire region's economy.
Life under the iron grips of the communist regime in the former USSR would've been much worse. <--------- Agreed, and WW2 is the last righteous war America fought. since then your armed forces have been a force of devastation and as polls showed the biggest threat to world peace.
If you have read anything about life in East Germany during the Russian occupation of that country, you will realize that the alternative is much much worse. <------- ok, so you're saying your foreign policy is better than Stalin's would have been so we should all just thank our lucky stars. you should look to better standards of comparison than Stalin. Try Ghandi!
We have to agree to disagree. <--------- done
Gandhi's policies dont work. They work well for an individual, but they cannot be applied to a nation state.
For a 1000 years, Islamic oppressors have murdered the peaceful Hindu and Buddhist people of that region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_of_Ghor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_of_Ghazni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamani
In someways, I think it is payback.
Gandhi's policies dont work. <----------- I beg to differ. A policy of Self reliance (decreasing the need for imports) and none-violence (makes everyone else like you) works well for any nation. It would be easy for the US to bring it's troops home to defend their country from within, and to stop selling weapons and promoting more war for profit (won't be needed since all that money used on military ops will be saved).
For a 1000 years, Islamic oppressors have murdered the peaceful Hindu and Buddhist people of that region...In someways, I think it is payback. <----------- It's is funny that you seem to think America is giving justice to the Indians considering Gandhi is renowned for winning India's freedom from the British using peaceful measures of civil disobedience. The British, the same people as your own founding fathers.
When it comes to oppression you should also think of what your soldiers have done in Iraq, and Vietnam. Not to mention the African slaves kidnapped from their homes, chained, whipped and forced into slavery, and not to forget the native Indians decimated and made to fight for different European powers when your original colonies were founded.
Finally all 3 Abrahamic religions are historically whenever they were in political power. The church initiated the crusades not even hesitating to send children to fight for them, the Islamic Caliphates got as far as Spain in their conquests, the Jews in Israel are still busy oppressing Palestinians as we speak.
A tiny percentage of people who pray in mosques may be terrorists, but the same tiny percentage of people who pray in churches and synagogues are also terrorists. Just lookup the record of radical Christians bombing abortion clinics and murdering the doctors that work in them, or orthodox Jewish Israeli soldiers opening fire on unarmed Palestinians, and getting away with a slap on the arm.
If you're unhappy with religion, look at all of them, not just the ones different than your own.
The point is all 3 religions can cause people to behave irrationally because it instills in them a belief in an afterlife which doesn't exist. Making them think that afterlife is more important than their real lives to the point that they're willing to die for it.
I'm atheist myself, but unlike you, I will give each person the benefit of the doubt rather than blanket-hate an entire religion, linguistic, or geographic group based on what you admit is an irrational fear!
typo:
All 3 Abrahamic religions are historically oppressive ...
P.S. Hareega, thanks for hosting my second blog :P
> Japan attacked a military base, they didn't completely oblitirate 2 entire cities complete with civilians.
3000 of my people were buried in a watery grave.
Why should our response be measured? Does it make any sense to ask countries to wage meaningful, measured wars? Japan is fully responsible for their provocation.
What are we in 6th grade? You poked my left hand, so I can only poke you back, and that too on your hands? It does not work that way.
> Iraq used to give Jordan oil for free before the war!
Exactly the reasoning for my stereotyping.
There is a Sunni Islamic brotherhood across the globe. You people use this to your advantage, but want to pretend like you are "different" people when the big eagle comes down on you with its claws.
Is there really a big difference between an Arab Muslim in Jordan and Saudi Arabia and Egypt? The boundaries that separate you are artificial.
That is why, when Pakistan exiles its ex-Prime Minister, he is hosted in Saudi Arabia for years.
Dont assume for a minute, that the west is ignorant of the "Sunni Islamic Global brotherhood" from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia.
The Muslims in Malaysia suppress the Chinese people in that country. Same shit, different country.
One good thing.
Atleast you dont belv in GOD.
And I like that about you.
I hate organized religion.
Does it make any sense to ask countries to wage meaningful, measured wars? <-------- Tell that to your politicians because that is exactly what the US is asking other countries to do. Buy weapons from it but as long as they don't try to develop nukes. This is the hypocrisy of it all.
You people use this to your advantage, but want to pretend like you are "different" people <-------- Some Arab countries may have friendly relationships, others do not. Either way, this doesn't mean that every single Arab country is responsible for the actions of every single Arab anywhere in the world as you seem to think. Anymore than the UK is responsible for Timothy Mcveigh's OKC bombing because he speaks English, is a christian and the UK and US are NATO allies. It is your reasoning that is flawed here.
Is there really a big difference between an Arab Muslim in Jordan and Saudi Arabia and Egypt? The boundaries that separate you are artificial. <----- Yes there is both visible, and cultural differences. You don't seem to know either which is why you ask this question. Regarding the boundaries they were created by the colonial powers years back. In the same way that the British when they left India insisted the Muslims would get Pakistan which ensured India would remain weak forever at odds. They created the middle eastern borders for the same reason, and it worked very well. That was so long ago that each country has since then become a nation in the same sense that natural selection can create new species merely through geographic isolation.
Atleast you dont belv in GOD...And I like that about you. <------- I don't believe in aliens, but this includes all Gods. Yet you seem to be on about only Muslims. Regardless while I dont' respect the religion itself, I do respect people's right to believe or practice it without undue discrimination. The kind you are applying consistently.
So if your excuse for attacking Iraq as payback for 911 reminds me of the old joke about the man who lost his keys in the dark alley, and decided it's too dark to look for them there, so he went to look for them in the well lit street nearby instead!
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