Monday, December 10, 2007

And no religion too?

A lot of people were murdered, slaughtered, and tortured in His name, in the name of God, in the name of religion.

Do you think the world would have been a better place without religion? If Moses, Muhammad, Jesus, Budha and the rest didn't come to the world, wouldn't have people made their own prophets and fought over them?

Give me your 2 cents

33 comments:

RB said...

People made their own prophets/gods, already fought over them, and still fighting.

Anonymous said...

I don't think religion is necessarily to blame. Those people would probably commit to their horrendous acts anyway, but this time around they use their religion as an excuse or shield!

Maher said...

IMO, its not the religion. Its the greedy people!

ZIad D. said...

I think religion is inevitable in any human society. For a comunity to form, humans needed structured conduct in order to coexist and cohabitate. Rules set without instilling some form of punishment for breaking them cannot necessarily be effective, and that society falls apart. In a primordial manner God, or God's Wrath was the ultimate form of instating these rules. Obey the rules or anger God if you dare and face the consequences.
Here is another example: You can go anywhere on Earth and find that a version similar to the Ten Commandments is at the core of that country's laws. Laws against killing, stealing and the rest have been adopted in one way or another. Punishment however comes in the form of incarsaration or fines, punshiments none-the-less.
When citizens of a certain country enjoy and trust their government, you notice that over-zealous religiosity and radicalism are not in the forefront of their day to day lives. Poorer and corrupt governments tend to have their respective citizens display significantly more religious undertones. I don't mean to stereotype. Good religious people exist in every society whether their government is good or bad. They simply don't force their beliefe on others. Or kill in the name of their religion, or opress people with other beliefs.
To answer your question: Religion has been given a terrible reputation due to a few bad apples in every society. I however strongly believe that we need religion to instill 'goodness' in our society. Laws tell us not to behave badly, but religions tells us to spread goodness and do good deeds unto others. I hope I got my point accross without too much rambling. I also certainly hope that I haven't offended anyone with my views.

caroline said...

Religion,not religiously speaking,is the only thing that 'refines' a person.One can be civil and decent and abide by all the great human laws but she would still be lacking that 'moral' thing that literally transcends all human intrinsic values.I think religion makes u respect life in all its forms and makes u realize what a miracle it is to 'give' life and how hard it is to maintain that life.so those who 'kill' in the name of religion r just ignorants.Just like Jesus said about having great faith versus having enough 'love' to move a mountain.if u 'love' God,u love urself enough to want to be saved,and u love others even ur enemies!at least that is how I think of my religion.

Jad said...

And you think they are fighting because of the religions ?

Hani Obaid said...

No, I think the world would have been better. I don't think we can have anymore prophets in this age. people aren't that gullible anymore. With proper upbringing, we would do the right thing because we want to, because it feels good. Not because we're selfish and want to go to heaven, hah!

leen said...

kol el 7roob bl denya w lhl2 heye 7roob deyanat,wela lesh betfakro? en shalah betfakro 3shan el nift?
l2 bedhom ynasoona deena w ma ykhallo wla moslem 3l ard had hdfhom,and believe me we r HELPING.

Firas said...

The roman empire?
Islamic Caliphate?
Westren Church?
The Nazis?
The Soviet Union?

They fought for religion?Ideology?

It's all about power,resources,money, control

kinzi said...

Firas, well said. It is the greed for power, cloaked in ideology, where the worst of man comes out. Religion is used as a tool. Atheism under the guise of Stalinism and communism killed how many millions?

The Observer said...

Who said that we havent done that already?

That Guy said...

This is a great question!

I agree with the fact that dogmatic religions (at least our interpretations of them) have caused a lot of damage and death. To me, dogmatic religion is quite absurd in itself.

HOWEVER, I do not believe the alternative to be atheism because...well, that is as absurd as any religious theory.

AGNOSTICISM, I believe, is the answer. Why do we have to believe in anything in particular? Why can't we have a broad outline of good on bad based on conscience, without all the 'spooky language' and hell fire?

The only problem is, are we as a species, fully able to live our lives without any comforting 'beliefs' without going mad?

Dave said...

God created a relationship with man. Man created religion for his own purposes. So in essence, "religious" people are missing the mark, which is evident in history.

supreme ki said...

it is just people! they love to categorize them selves according to different things. But it seems that ideologies and races are the most favorite categorize. Races are for stupid people and ideologies are for smarter ones. So to say the truth a human being is the only one to be blamed always.

Anonymous said...

People need religion like they need a kick in the nuts. Some of the most moral people I've ever met were atheists. And they are moral because it's the right way to live life... not because some imaginary father-figure-in-the-sky will "spank" them if they do wrong.

The West has defanged religion by separating it from State. The civilized world is moving further and further away from religion because slowly people are beginning to recognize that science benefits all.

Isn't it better to live rightly because a person understands it's the correct way to live, rather than to live rightly because they fear punishment in a hell that doesn't exist?

Hareega said...

zaid d... but over history don't you think that it was more than a few bad apples who fought and killed for religion? Didn't people from all religion participate in massive wars in the name of God, or at least to them God was one of the important reasons to fight and kill?

Hareega said...

caroline, I can relate somewhat to what you're saying but I'm religious myself, but don't you think that some of the greatest humanitarians in the world are not believers? Some are driven by religion and some other are driven only by compassion to man.

Hareega said...

Jad, probably religion was not the the reason all the killings in the name of God took place for, but it was a major reason. People would not have fought that hard if it wasn't for God.

Hareega said...

leen, there are 1500 million Muslims in the world, I don't think any sane person would think of eradicating Muslims.

Hareega said...

Firas... I know it's all for power, but religion always played a major role in these conflicts.

Part of the reason why many Jordanian avoided communists is because they're virtually athiests, not all are but generally communism was associated with athiesm.

Same applies for a lot of conflicts all over the world.

Hareega said...

that guy,
I think you should be able to beleive in whatever you want. Some people believe that the only way to righteousness lies in believing in God and a certain faith. Others don't believe in religion at all but just believe in God. Asking people to eb agnostic is the same mistake that religious people do when they ask everyone else to follow only one religion.

Hareega said...

Dave, how do you know that God created a relationship with man? If it wasn't for religion do you think man would have thought of God's existence?

Hareega said...

supreme ki, the mistake that some people fall into is assuming that all followers of a certain faith share the same ideology. In this world where each religion can be interpreted differently, and followers of the same faith share very different ideas and principles even sometimes clashing with each other, it would be unwise to associate a religion with one ideology.

Hareega said...

anonymous...
Religion (at least Chrisitianity) did not come to make people's lives better and it was predicted by Jesus that "he will not come to bring peace on earth but fire" and that was not his purprose but an expectation. You can imagine religion as a great power, something like a great political movement if you wish, like communism, or socialism, some kind of major change that affected plenty of peopel thus creating lots of differences and more wars and trouble. Politically it sucked, but for religious people life on earht is not important and it's religions's job to make people happy on earth. I don't think JEsus would have endoresed any political movement if he was alive as a man now, just like he didn't when he was alive as a man 2000 years ago.

Ziad D. said...

Faris,
I have been trying to think of one example in history (not that I am claiming that I am history buff or anything) where there wasn't an individual who set the wheels of history into motion.
A person wielding enough power, and with a specific idealogical agenda has been at the heart of all known human massacres in recorded history. In many occasions, these powerful individuals have used religion as a means to evoke their subjects into action. If memory serves me well, a recent leader of the free world started to have conversations with God. Many Iraqis have died as a result of these conversations.
Would we have faired better if we never had religion in the first place? This is a deeply fundamental question that I cannot begin to give a definite answer to. I can tell you what I know as best as my alloquence would allow me: I don't think we have a choice in the matter. Religion has been at the core of humanity since our begining, it was needed to create civilizations. Has it been beneficial to our advancement? Yes for the most part. Can we abolish it this day and age due to the damage that was caused in it's name? If you saciate every belly in the world, and put every mind/soul at peace with God you may have a chance. Do I want it gone? No. I however want religion not to impact how I deal with a person of a different idealogy. I want religion to become my private way of communicating with God. It should not be bragged about but dealt with as a secret code between your soul and our Creator (for those that choose to believe in one.) Or a means to attain enlightenment, should one choose to adopt a spiritual routine. Whatever path one decides to take, it ought to stay personal. I don't tell you how much I make, why should you know how I worship (if I worship) the Lord.
Sorry Faris, I know I veered of your main question by a lot, but your question has a lot depth to it, and it is multi-faceted. Thanks again! Why do you keep calling me Zaid by the way? :)

leen said...

guys i dissagree.i'm not blaming religion,what im trying trying to say here is that they are afraid of islam,its their biggest fear,so they are trying their best to let us forget about god,why?cuz they CANT CONTROL THE WORLD WITHOU KILLING EVERYTHING BELONGS TO ISLAM.men m3rifty ely kteer motwadi3a msh 72dr a2ool kolshy b edy eyah in a few lines:Dand hey im not irhabbeye ok :D

bambam said...

simply they don't really care all that much leen, your are delusional about the importance of islam in the equation
that aside while it did serve its purpose in the past but there needs to de-construct the institutions rather than the religion its self and strip it of its power and move the question of faith to be a personal issue rather than a public one

supreme ki said...

Exactly! So that is why I said ideologies instead of religions. For instance you can see why there is Catholic and Protestant. You can also see the conflict between Sunni and She3a! So the different in ideologies in the same religion results in these different cults within the same religion. What I meant by ideologies something like the communism and any other religion once it is considered as a whole system of life. I mean when you fight for your religion not because you were born with it but because you think it is the only way to utopia that is some how smarter than fighting for your race, religion or any other that you acquired by birth. But the smartest lives with his religion (ideology) with out conflicts, even if he was trying to spread it, he knows that you can not force others to join his way. That is all. Sorry for not making it clears. And it is still just an opinion. You see the guys who do not believe in religion think that what you said is already happening.

tinkerbella said...

religion does not cause people to fight/murder/plunder etc, they simply use it as a justification.

if they did not have religion to justify their evil nature, they would have simply found sth else

nice question tho, and the comments were interesting!

bambam said...

for the people that think it doesn't cause any bad things can you please explain the logic behind it especially how each one claims its the one and only truth
and spare me that true xxx exemplify compassion love and peace i heard a few more times than i would like to

tinkerbella said...

re bambam: personally, I don't believe there is one straight path to the truth. I think if you have a connection with God (whatever you choose to call Him or even if you choose to believe in Him as an entity or simply The One who created you and the universe), and you live your life morally with pure intent towards Him, trying to do the right thing, then you are on The Path you are supposed to be on.
Simple as that

Rambling Hal said...

AAHAHAHHAHAHA....shoo mishkalji bi hal post!!! HAHAHAHHA!!! :D

Anonymous said...

Even if religion did not exist we would still have chaos. To obtain peace we need to go through chaos therefore chaos is part of the cycle of life. I do agree though that now a days religion is just an excuse to commit "horrendous acts"