So it sounds like some foreign Chrisitan organizations were extremely disappointed because some of its members were expelled from the country for their missionary roles inside the country.
In many parts of the previous report and this one, there is a suggestion that any citizen involved in evangelism was deported.
Regarding the role of Missionaries, I respect the intent of many of them to help the poor and to do their best in trying to spread the word. I even oppose a part of the Jordanian law that makes it impossible for anyone to convert to Chrisitianity. Having said that, if the Jordanian government did really expell some evangelical missionaries outside Jordan, I'm a 100% supporter of that.
There is more than one reason to question the motives and the roles of some of these missionaries. The ties of several evangelical organizations to Israel is a good enough reason for them not to stay in Jordan. Their blind support to the very arrogant, war-loving, right wing Republicans in the White House makes every Arab, including Arab Chrisitans, uncomfortable to say the least. There were several reports of missionaries in Iraq following the very unChrisitan invasion of Iraq, a war that resulted in the death of more than 100,000 soles. Do you expect Arabs to greet these missionaries with flowers or with the perception that they are part of the new occupation that everyone is opposing?
I get really annoyed when some Chrisitians assume superiority to other Chrisitians in other locations in the world just because we are part of the developing world, or because the majority of the population we live with is non-Chrisitan. I can smell that in many places I go to and in many sermons I listen to on TV or in real life. Has anyone forgotten that Christianity was born in the Middle East? That Aramic, the language of Jesus, is only spoken now in Syria and Iraq?
I'm a Jordanian, I'm a Chrisitan and I'm proud of both. There are thousands of Jordanian Muslims (and Chrisitians) who fought and died to protect me and ensure I live in a safe country. I practise my religion safely and I do not wish for anyone to protect me. We've existed long enough to know what endangers our religion. We live in an area and in a time when everybody is sensitive to anything and having individuals who are poorly-informed of the region and its history come in and assume they're living in a perfect world where everyone is free to do whatever s/he wants will not help.
Besides, Jesus himself was arrested, tortured and crucified and did not complain. Many of his disciples suffered while preaching his words, and they did not complain. Instead, they were grateful. They rejoiced their death. Why are these missionaries protesting when they haven't experienced even 1% of the persecution that Jesus and the disciples suffered from?
Hareega
In many parts of the previous report and this one, there is a suggestion that any citizen involved in evangelism was deported.
Regarding the role of Missionaries, I respect the intent of many of them to help the poor and to do their best in trying to spread the word. I even oppose a part of the Jordanian law that makes it impossible for anyone to convert to Chrisitianity. Having said that, if the Jordanian government did really expell some evangelical missionaries outside Jordan, I'm a 100% supporter of that.
There is more than one reason to question the motives and the roles of some of these missionaries. The ties of several evangelical organizations to Israel is a good enough reason for them not to stay in Jordan. Their blind support to the very arrogant, war-loving, right wing Republicans in the White House makes every Arab, including Arab Chrisitans, uncomfortable to say the least. There were several reports of missionaries in Iraq following the very unChrisitan invasion of Iraq, a war that resulted in the death of more than 100,000 soles. Do you expect Arabs to greet these missionaries with flowers or with the perception that they are part of the new occupation that everyone is opposing?
I get really annoyed when some Chrisitians assume superiority to other Chrisitians in other locations in the world just because we are part of the developing world, or because the majority of the population we live with is non-Chrisitan. I can smell that in many places I go to and in many sermons I listen to on TV or in real life. Has anyone forgotten that Christianity was born in the Middle East? That Aramic, the language of Jesus, is only spoken now in Syria and Iraq?
I'm a Jordanian, I'm a Chrisitan and I'm proud of both. There are thousands of Jordanian Muslims (and Chrisitians) who fought and died to protect me and ensure I live in a safe country. I practise my religion safely and I do not wish for anyone to protect me. We've existed long enough to know what endangers our religion. We live in an area and in a time when everybody is sensitive to anything and having individuals who are poorly-informed of the region and its history come in and assume they're living in a perfect world where everyone is free to do whatever s/he wants will not help.
Besides, Jesus himself was arrested, tortured and crucified and did not complain. Many of his disciples suffered while preaching his words, and they did not complain. Instead, they were grateful. They rejoiced their death. Why are these missionaries protesting when they haven't experienced even 1% of the persecution that Jesus and the disciples suffered from?
Hareega
Posts
47 comments:
Hareega, there are several sides to this issue that don't seem to be addressing. Some of the people who were deported were church friends of ours, long-term families who served IN the churches, evangelism wasn't a part of their deal. They came at the invitation of said churches to serve, not with their own agenda. Who cares their 'organizations' were disappointed, my kids lost dear friends.
The disturbing thing for many is that the 'foreigners' being deported are Egyptian pastors, not American zealots. Men who have been married to Jordanian women for decades and have children, served faithfully and are now separated from their families - Jordanian wives and children who will not (at this point) be able to live in Jordan again. One was deported this week in his pajamas, not even allowed to change clothes.
As far as the Zionism thing, if any foreign Christian comes with that bent, it only takes about 6 months for it to evaporate or they leave. Then, we who have a a heart for Palestine, reflect it back to family and friends in America. The evangelical church in Jordan grew not as a result of 'missionaries' but as Palestinian evangelicals were forced out of Palestine and moved to Jordan.
It's not even a beef with the government. I'm sure they know every move of every foreigner, and if heavy-duty prosyletisation was going on, they would know first. Unlike the letter to the JT, the gov has given a legitimate place to the evangelical wing of Christianity.
I like your last paragraph, but what is difficult here is that it is not the gov or Muslims who are persecuting anyone, it is fellow Christians. It's not 1600 anymore, Protestants have been on the 'turf' since early last century.
People seem to forget that helping others was a mandate of Christ, and always seem to attribute some ulterior motive. The friends we had who left had pure hearts, and their Jordanian friends miss them more than we do.
I hope that adds another angle. :)
I'm reserving my personal opinion on the matter and on Christian missionaries in Jordan as a whole but I just wanted to point out something. In my college days I became acquainted with someone whose family members were Christian missionaries in Jordan for numerous years. He (and his family) happened to be some of the biggest advocates for the Palestinian cause and gave off that impression of Christian missionaries in Jordan.
So when it comes to support for Israel and the Palestinian cause I don't know what their religious justification is for their viewpoints but I don't think they're shared with the likes of Billy Graham and Pat Robertson. That's my 2 cents.
Jordan IS persecuting Christians and Muslims. Maybe your sect is not not being persecuted, but do NOT say there is no persecution.
In Jordan, Muslim Shiites are being repressed, tortured, slandered in Jordan mosques as an official policy.
Christians who DO NOT belong to the major churches ARE BEING PERSECUTED in Jordan. Of course the major churches do not recognize them as Christians, just like some Sunnis do not recognize Shiites as Muslims.
So to the Jordanian regime, it's a semantics game.
So maybe a better question is ARE PEOPLE BEING PERSECUTED FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN JORDAN? YES!!!
anon,
What in hell are you talking about?
you are not basing your argument on any facts but your bigoted prejudice.
I had many Christian friends and neighbors and never heard of them being prosecuted or even negativity directed towards them.
I hope i don't offend too many people
Isn't it a bit odd to you that we have these evangelicals (or anyone else) in Jordan preaching to Christians about Jesus? He grew up in our back yard..really
You can't convert Muslims because it's against their religion, so what is the purpose of it? to have more Christians sects in Jordan and more ridiculous "I'm holier than you" arguments??
I remember when i was in Jordan "Christian" missionaries used to come with money and goods and re-baptize converts it was not free help for the poor it was more like join and we'll give you whatever you want..Their approach was VERY different than Church groups who allied with local churches for humanitarian aid and exchange projects. Trust me i've seen it,i'm from Fuheis ..Jordan's Christian Central all missionaries pass through there until they are sent back to Amman and Huson.
Now that i'm out of Jordan, I've had too many run ins at the altar where i was refused communion because i didn't follow the right sect i don't go to Church in the US anymore. I don't want to see more of this nonsense in Jordan, it took us years to have Orthodox and Catholics agree on holidays, it's bad enough people are starting to shop around churches for easy divorces...we don't need to expand the buffet for the cafeteria Christians.
An after thought...It really doesn't get worse.. in Jordan we recognize LDS as a Christian sect and they are allowed in..it is mind boggling how the "Original Christians" approved of that.
mab300s you retard, read your own local news and visit your own mosques and stop by various human rights websites and learn more about Jordan's government systematic repression. Religious persecution is the least of our troubles in Jordan.
What a backward retard. You must the Jordanian intelligence representative to the Jordanian blogosphere. You must be the guy who authorizes or maybe executes the persecution.
Anon,
pure Arab "freedom of speech"!
Hmm... for me, just like kinzi said (wow thats the third time we agreed today... eerie :P), Its more so the christians major sects calling in favors rather than the gov't caring too much about prosyletisation.
Evangelicals take pride in that part especially and thats why you heard an outcry.
@maha
we had those sects for a while now (as long as i can remember i've bumped into them), and usually JW and LDS do it more quietly than others but they do all do it non the less to some extent. especially within the christian community itself.
LOL BamBam! I just saw Nas' comment section, and you are RIGHT! So, who's slacking? :)
Mab3oos, I have heard this a lot from Jordanian Christians of Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant 'sects', especially in the last year. It is said quietly, under the breath, and certainly not in the presence of anyone not of their faith.
I think your personal method of communication (shoot first, ask questions later) doesn't lend itself to people being open about this very sensitive subject. :) I know you hate it, but DO try 'nice'.
I would use the rate of Christian immigration from Jordan to the West as an indicator of 'persecution'.
"I would use the rate of Christian immigration from Jordan to the West as an indicator of 'persecution'."
Well, what about fear of the surrounding wars? Or maybe looking for better jobs?
This is an oversimplification and a false representation of what is really happening..You can't assume that someone migrated because he/she is persecuted..There are more than one million jordanians abroad, are they all being persecuted?
In chicago here, we have a large jordanian christian community, and you simply can't find jordanians more proud than them..I have many many many christian jordanian friends that I consider brothers, well what about them?
But, let me make this clear, I am with keeping the field open, if they want to convert muslims to christianity let it be, if your belief system is not strong enough so that you can stay on one relegion then we are better off without you..But using people's poverty as a door to "sell" relegion is just disgusting! And are they stupid enough to believe someone who bought relegion for money?
Final thing, Kinzi, what if one of your friends got shot or kidnapped because of his/her obvious evangalism? We all know the media cry that will follow!So if they are stupid and made their actions so obvious in a hostile territory, what would you expect? I think the issue was a security one..And if you simply ignore that aspect then your naive and ignorant..
*Sorry for the typos in advance:D
Mohanned, sometimes I wonder if I offended you at some point. We used to seem to have an understanding, it seems gone now. That saddens me. Whatever I have done, I hope you will tell me so I can apologize and learn.
I brought up the immigration point because it is something that can be counted, not 'subjective' as Mab3oos rightly pointed out. Feeling 'pressure' (which is a better word) is not an indication of Jordanian pride, Jordanians I know in the US are likewise patriotic. I'm sorry if I inadvertantly gave this a slant having to do with patriotism.
You may call it simplification, I'm just telling you what I have heard, most recently at a birthday party last week. Evangelical Jordanians are afraid.
I'm sorry you feel I am naive and ignorant. I'm sure it had something to do with security, but the letter from the JCC has certainly made it one, and a greater likelihood that violence would be done.
I personally don't know anyone who does what you speak of, and disagree with such methods as you do. The article in the JP referred to people giving money and and mentioned foreign brides...sounds more like Mormons to me. :)
I hope, Mohanned, we could go back to the ways things were. You were one of my fav commenters. I am sorry if I grieved you in anyway.
Wooo kinzi, the first part of my reply was intended to you. I know and you know that your are neither ignorant nor naive and i hold so much respect for you and what you do..If you recall,I gave myself the right to grant you jordanian citizenship with all what comes with it good or bad ;)
Now,when I said naive and ingnorant I was refering to anyone who ignores the security factor in such an issue..
Additionally, I am sure I read somewhere in the near past that somepeople are using money to buy other "convert" other people, especially in rural areas and between bedouins because they represent the most vulnerable part of the society, wether it is true or not is not my concern, I simply showed my disgust with such behavior. And I made it clear that I am not against people spreding their relegion wether it is christianity or islam, but you can't expect that some people will get in the defensive mode, just like here in the US when they fear the increasing number of both muslim immigrants and converts, so you can't blame others..
As for your friends being afraid, it doesn't mean that they are being persecuted. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable here in the US, and sometimes I fear for my wife and daughter because my wife is vieled(By choice)..All of that does't mean that I am being persecuted by the Us government, It simply represent a state of mind that is caused by many factors one of which myabe the stories of deportation..
I know I am complicating the issue a little bit, but it is complex by nature, and I am sure that the government of jordan can't afford providing security to each and every "foreigner", especially if their goal became obvious and they put themselves and the security of jordan at risk; it only takes one incident to ruin a whole year of tourism income, right? And when that happens, thousands of already poor jordanians will get poorer and more desperate..
I hope I made my point clear, and again you know how much I respect you kinzi and sorry if I offended you in anyway..
Again sorry for the Damned typos:D
"There are more than one million jordanians abroad, are they all being persecuted?"
Of course not. They all live in a free democracy where wealth is distributed fairly and everyone is equal before the law.
Whew, Mohanned, I didn't realize you were being general. I am SO relieved (probably so hormonal, too)and glad that I still have my honorary JO citizenship intact. :)
I agree that pressure is a better word than persecuted. But then there is also stuff happening that wasn't in the article.
I also agree that it will make security a much bigger job. Which may be the real reasons for deportations...those folks have other battles to fight and dont' need loose canon foreigners around flying under the radar. But it would be sad if the legitimate foreigners are thrown out with them, like our friends were and all the Egyptian pastors married to Jordanians.
Anon,
Whats your point? Are you claiming that they are being expats to experience democracy?
If so then get ready to hear this:
Half a million of those are in saudi arabia and UAE, where democracy and freedom of speech is the farthest term.So basically it is for economical purposes, not persecution outcomes..
Of course if you have dual citiziship thats another issue, right?
I agree that we live a fake democracy, or not even close to fake, but lets not mix issues here..
Kinzi,
I totally understand your frustration and theirs.You make good points. And I am sure you understood what I meant..
Thanks
Well to tell the truth I find you Hareega a bit contradicting and mixing, not your mistake, but the mistake of the others who mix politics and religion. I am not against any converting, even if it is to the religion that worships the cows… Muslims, Christians and Jews should start seeing that they are not alone in this world, and definitely not the best.
I am totally against expelling those people because everyone should know better what religion they would like to have. If this sector supports the right wing republicans then its not our problem, who says that your politician views are the best? I am saying that even when I hate the right wing republicans, (I can be rather an “evil communist”), doesn’t matter, I simply know there are other views in this life. (Even though I know that you are talking from a nice Arabic point of view, which I respect)
I agree with anyone who promotes for any religion, his own religion, I don’t care. The problem and the only problem is that some Muslims in Jordan and surrounding areas have just “got used” to be Muslims, so many of them take religion as a name written on the ID, not more. Those ones are easy to convert. But what the hell, let them convert… anyone who is not convinced with what he/she has can convert. I am also against any law any where that says people can not convert.
Hareega, I've been looking for a response from a Jordanian evangelical. This is from Dr. Imad Shehadi, Founder and President of the Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary.
http://www.comeandsee.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=873
3ammania, I did not mix religion with politics, I'm actually against mixing them together because it harms both politics and religion to do so. It's not me who did, it's a lot of these organizations.
As I said in the post, I also support the right for anyone to convert from one religion to another and I'm opposed to the Jordanian law in that matter. However having groups that donate millions of dollars to support Israel and that characterize Arabs as monsters should not be welcomed. I feel sorry for the sad personal stories of many people who were expelled, and I know that the majority of them had good intentions, but I think our government was right in sending a message to missionaries that our region is volatile and their activitiesa re not welcomed.
Kinzi, I really do feel sorry for your friends. I know that most of those expelled had good intentions and their aim was not to "destabilize" the community of the region, but there's a very big question mark about evanglism in the region. Even if these individulas who were expelled were not supporters of Israel, their main organization or "faith" is.
Hi Hareega,
I disagree with you.
Here are my comments on the whole controversy
http://www.mentalmayhem.net/mental_mayhem/2008/02/saddened-by-jor.html
Im a full supporter of religious freedom and I everyone should have the right to choose their own religion or no religion if they wish however:
1) I have met some evangelists in Jordan and later on found out more about their group which is simply some form of fundamentalist Christian Zionism totally focused on crap like 'returning' Jerusalem to the Jews who are its rightful owners etc... This is not simply an issue of faith, this is a coordinate effort to create political influence under the guise of humanitarian work. Obviously this is only one group out of many, and i'm sure that there is a majority of very caring Christian charity organisations working in the country who should be protected and encouraged. But it is important to ensure that these groups do not try to mix religion with politics because this has never been an issue in Jordan and once it is done then pandora's will be open and will create a threat to all of us.
2) These people entered the country on the basis that they will be engaged with charity work etc.. and not proselytising. So in a sense they are breaking the law and should be deported because they are essentially foreigners who are doing something in the country other than that which they had been given permission to do.
Regarding the role of Missionaries, I respect the intent of many of them to help the poor and to do their best in trying to spread the word. I even oppose a part of the Jordanian law that makes it impossible for anyone to convert to Chrisitianity. Having said that, if the Jordanian government did really expell some evangelical missionaries outside Jordan, I'm a 100% supporter of that.
Missionaries aside, it sounds like Christians in Jordan are at a distinct disadvantage in the marketplace of religious ideas. Can Jordanian Christians proselytize? It sounds like they cannot. Can Jordanian Muslims proselytize? I've never heard of any prosecutions for this and it is hard to believe it doesn't occur. The excuse that because Muslims condemn conversion makes this double-standard acceptable is absurd. After all, no true Christian could support someone abandoning Christianity as a moral decision any more than a Muslim could someone abandoning Islam.
Maybe the reason Christians in the developed world come across as superior is because they are actually enthusiastic about their faith, believe it is the truth, and want to share it with others. Evangelicals in the United States often hold a quite positive opinion of Christians in sub-Saharan Africa in spite of the fact that sub-Saharan Africa is even more underdeveloped than the Mideast. That is probably because those African Christians are energetic about their faith. They also hold an admiring view of Christians in Asian countries like China and South Korea. By contrast, most Mideastern Christians, especially those outside Egypt, seem resigned to being an ever-diminishing "dhimmi" population more interested in staying out of trouble with not-always-tolerant Muslims than in spreading the truth of their religion. It's Mideastern Christians that often seem most averse to persecution in the name of their faith.
Christians in the Mideast can strut about acting superior because, after all, they live closer to where Jesus was born, but the simple truth is that Mideastern Christians, unlike Western, African, or Far Eastern Christians, have done a relatively poor job at spreading or even merely maintaining the faith in those lands that are the very cradle of Christianity. Look at the transformation of Nazareth from an overwhelmingly Christian to a mostly Muslim city over the past few decades if you want a case in point.
Finally, this idea of yours that because some members of the community hold certain political views (like opinion on Israel) condemns all members of that community, and your intolerance for a person's freedom to hold such views, is typical of Arabs who demonstrate, time and again, they don't really understand or support freedom of speech or thought. In any event, I hope I won't hear any further complaints from Hareega about the way westerners unnecessarily lump all Arabs or Muslims in the same basket just because a minority (or a majority) of Arabs or Muslims in some country believe in something or act a certain way. ;-)
OK, one last point before you tire of me commenting. I hope you will read Dr. Imad's response.
In terms of changing the hearts of American Evangelical "Zionists" Dr. Imad is one of the main players. He visits some of the biggest and most powerful theological institutions and churches (even the White House) in the US portraying Palestinians as many are: educated, peace-loving. He does it in a gentle and winsome way, which wins the hearts of many who have their minds full of bombs, terrorism and the like.
One of the visiting professors to JETS is Dr. Tony Maalouf, author of "Arabs in the Shadow of Israel". The premise of his book is finding and valuing 'Arabness' in the Hebrew scriptures, which takes the wind out of the sails of many 'Zionists'. Dr. Tony is influencing the next generation of pastors in the US.
In attacking JETS this way, the church board is trying to cut off one of the most valuable, influential Arab/Palestinian peace-making voices there are.
Ana 7abbait kteer kel elli katabto. Yeslam rasak ou edaik 3ala kel kilmeh :)
tommy,
In the Arab world, if any Chrisitian converted to Islam his/her family members will defnintely be disappointed, and they might even chase them and threaten them, however it is not illegal and the authorities will not chase that person and force them to convert back.
Your accusation that Chrisitans in the Middle East do not care much about Chrisitanity as much as other Chrisitians is absurd. The reason "the percentage" of Arab Chrisitians has dropped is the fertility rates among Chrisitians were not nealry as high Muslims. Secondly the majority of Arabs living in Latin America and the US were Chrisitians of as early as the beginnings of the 10th century, and that made it much easier for Chrisitians rather than Muslims to immigrate).
The majority of Chrisitans in Jordan,Syria,Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt and Iraq identify themselves as Chrisitians and they practise their religion, at a percentage much higher than Chrisitians in North America or Europe.
Finally you can't compare the US to Jordan. The history is so much different. There is separation between church and state in the US, but that's not true about Jordan.
Hareega, its my first visit to your blog, and now that i read your blog, particularly also after knowing that you are chrisitan -you mentioned that in the post- i say that right now you are my hero, everybody else is irrelevant.
It brightens my day when i see such political consciousness and such patriotism.
And you are a doctor?
And a typical Muslim. That means that you do not live by the standards that you demand from others. The way that Muslims treat minority religions, women, gays and even certain sects of Islam is a disgrace. No, it is immoral.
... But it never bothers Muslims.
They dont care. The hate and violence in the Quran obviously doesn't bother them either.
Notice how this 'enlightened' Muslim, a doctor no less, so easily backs expelling people for their religion. This is what Islam is all about: oppression, discrimination and violence.
Hareega, it IS illegal to convert out of Islam in many (most?) Muslim societies. Have you not heard of the apostasy laws? Yes, Jordan is one of the more 'tolerant' countries but it still persecutes non-Muslims. And please tell me why you have one set of standards for the US and another for Muslim countries. We have a word for that.
Yes, it is Muslims who are persecuting people -- with the help of their governments. They do it because it is part of their religion. Of course, Muslims must always blame others for their problems.
Here are a few links for you to check:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,457002,00.html
http://asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=7607
http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20977254-2702,00.html
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/Navariednews.asp?dismode=article&artid=1135126315
http://economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10337900
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1572075636
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/mark-steyn-jihad-1797347-exposs-column
One last question: Have any of you actually read the ahadith? A reading of the life and actions of MOhammad will explain everything. Muslims today are just doing what their dear prophet did.
Kactuz
Hareega,
its a long debate you started here it seems!
the truth is that, i have been very upset about all this issue and knew about it couple of months before it started to leak to the media. To be exact, there are certain charity organizations, that opened churches, in to put things in the most simple way, they lure Iraqi families to come to the service, Iraqi Muslim women and children included, and after reading passages from the bible and letting them sing some chants, they THEN give them some food rations, or whatever aid they got, no point before that, only after they participate in that service. now talk to them and they would tell you: we don't make anyone come, people are here for the love of Jesus, talk to the Muslim Iraqis there, they would tell you: we are only doing it for the aid we get, we are poor and nobody is helping us, we don't have residency and we are not allowed to work, etc etc.
are you missionaries, you ask them, they tell you no we are only aid workers that are here to help poor people, and then one of my Ameircan firneds took one of them aside, and the guy told me friend, straight ahead, bluntly, that they are missionaries.
An iraqi family already converted ot christianity, only to get an instant visa and leave to the states, if you want to wait for the UNHCR to get you the asylem, its taking years now, you do that little thing of telling missionaries that you converted, and your family gets a visa and lots of help in the states too even when they arrive, churches take good care of them, you can imagine how that story can be used just right to gain compassion, oh and dont forget that they will tell the chirch that now that we converted, crazy muslims will kill us, you have to take us to the US right now!
I don't know about you Hareega, but i think that its not only immoral to make people blackmail people to come to religious ceremonies only to get aids, its immoral of both sides of course, both the givers and the takers, but also its pointless, you know that if you have someone covert because you give them stuff..then they don't really believe in what you preach and they are not real followers..who need more hypocrite religion followers? God knows we have enough in every religion in the world already!
And even much worse: As you mentioned, many of these organizations have suspicious elations with Israel, and similar missionary tactics have been used before in many parts of the world as an arm of foreign intervention, political or military foreign intervention in countries. Not to mention how much social stress the actions of these charity organization puts on the society, and the anger they inflame against Christians in general, unfortunately, could effect even Jordanian Christians, that as you said, are and have always been citizens of this country, with equal citizenship rights, very well represented in the parliament beyond their actual percentage of the population, and enjoy completely free freedom in practicing their religious beliefs, and it just upsets me a lot how some idiots in the west come here and in my blog and other places complaining about how Christians are oppressed in the ME. and It's very important for patriot Christians like yourself to speak out what they think because if you don't then who knows how much time will pass before we have some American folks in our backyard with tanks and bombs to free the oppressed Christians in Jordan from the oppression of the blood thirsty Jordanian Muslims?
Sorry for the lengthly comment.
Kinzi, I'll read Dr.Imad response in length and watch what's gonna happen in the near future. Keep me updated please.
KActuz, I'm not Muslim. Also the Jordanian government did not expell people for their religion, it would be nice if you read what I wrote before you commented on it.
Khalid Jarrar, it would be impossible to always question the motives of people who convert. Add to that is that mnay people change their faiths without changing their documents. I think people should be free to choose their own faiths.
I met on my way to Amman/Jordan American Indian who told me I am coming to Jordan to preach for Christianity - I was horrified by his statement - we do not need preachers - we need real help in field of education - what about defending Indian rights in America?
'One of the visiting professors to JETS is Dr. Tony Maalouf, author of "Arabs in the Shadow of Israel".'
Pity the security deported him too... Shooting their own feet. Its in Jordan that I learned to understand some of the Palestinian issues. I have taken whole teams of "Zionist Evangelists" into Wahdat for a cup of tea with the refuges there.. "refugees from where?" They said... Well after some wonderful hospitality and heart to heart talks... these people head home and quietly but surely begin to change the opinions of their church and nation. I think the longterm impact of foreign Christians in Jordan on their home land is WAY underestimated... (ps To big-brother@GID.JO I no longer live in Jordan ;o)
-BJ
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING!!
It's like, government deport people, give a small press release,,,and loads of things in the backstage, unknown,,, and keep guessing these things..
There is alot of more useful things to do..
3ala golet REM, Loosing my religion
we have aramaic culture , the most christians in jordan are aramaic .
we never accept islam and arab !!!
200 handred years ago we spoke in aramaic language now we use english arab french . muslims trying to break us to drive us from our home
they trying more about 1000 year
but we stay chrisian because aramaic people loving a freedom and aramaic women always powerfull .
we waiting new middleeast new world when the evil power (islam )
will die .
God bless aramaic nation in jordan
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Mit dem Kauf Ihres anf�nglichen Hauses kann �berw�ltigend sein. Als entscheident k�nnen Die police einander leisten? Dies ist uns sind Diese Zinss�tze? Welche Art durch Darlehen sollten Sie votieren? All Folgende Fragen sind durch den Kopf stiefeln (umgangssprachlich), sowie Die police das weiterkommen Haus finanzieren erbitten. Makler wirkt fr�her optimistisch zu sein und vielleicht kleine menge unversch�mt, sobald sie versuchen, "die verkaufen." Die Schritte sollten Die police bei dem Kauf Ihrer anfang Hause? Anheben (gesang) Diese, indem Die police Ihre Kreditkarte in Ordnung erscheint. Diese k�nnen eine Bonit�tspr�fung Oberhalb gegenseitig wenn schon nach betrachten, sobald Diese anst�ndig Kredit. Hypothekenbanken Blick uff ( berlinerisch ) Ihre FICO Score (Dies wirkt Ihre Kreditw�rdigkeit), um die Rate Ihres Darlehens und welche Arten im bereich Programmen, Gute Die police diagnostizieren (fachsprachlich), zu h�nden die Die police gegenseitig qualifizieren k�nnen. Um sich eine genaue Vorstellung betreffend Ihrer FICO Score ben�tigen Sie einen Bericht aus allen drei Ratingagenturen. Zur Erleichterung eines Berichts und ausserdem verbessern genaue Kredit-Scores von beste Ort zu gehen, erscheint www.fico.com. Die promotion Bericht betreffend allen drei Agenturen (Equifax, Experian und ebenfalls TransUnion) kostet ca. 40 Dollar. Normalerweise, falls das weiterkommen Gl�ubiger einander Oben Ihren Kredit fragen, ob Sie z. hd. eine Finanzierung hinein Betracht, Gute G�ste Abfrage wird Ihre Kreditkarte einwirken (auf) klitzekleines bisschen, aber wenn Die police mit dem Bericht L�nger als sich auch wird es keinen Einfluss auf Ihre G�ste. Sie m�ssen Die in der sparte Auge nach behalten, w�hrend Diese einkaufen um zu h�nden Gute richtige Hypothek Tun. Niemals ihnen Gute Erlaubniskarte, eine Bonit�tspr�fung zu tun, bis Sie ziemlich sicher, dass Die police Eine gute Firma, die Sie z. hd. Ihre Finanzierung verwenden m�chten.
ÿþ j e n e r W e r t I h r e s K a s i n o s g e h t d a s g r o s s e r W e g b e i d e m E n t s c h e i d e n , d e n n v i e l J e n e h e r a u f e i n e r E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k e r h a l t e n b r i n g e n . E i n n e h m e n J e n e w e l c h e n G e l t u n g f e r n e r b e r e c h n e n S i e , w i e m a s s e n w e i s e S i e f u e r i h n b e k o m m e n b r i n g e n . F u e r e i n e T a t s a c h e i s t e i n e s d e r e r s t e n D i n g e , w e l c h e d i e K r e d i t g e s e l l s c h a f t w o l l e n w i r d , f a l l s S i e i h n e n u e b e r r e i c h e n , d e r W e r t j e n e r E i g e n s c h a f t , d i e J e n e z u g u n s t e n v o n z u s a e t z l i c h e S i c h e r h e i t a n b r i n g e n .
e s g i b t m a n c h e D i n g e , w e l c h e J e n e i n k e i n e r w e i s e p r o b i e r e n s o l l t e n , a l l e i n z u t u n . D i e , w e l c h e s o l c h e s a u s e i n e r E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k e r s t m a l s n i m m t . S i n d
W e l c h e e r s t e E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k e n o p t i o n f u e r S i e i s t i n k e i n e r w e i s e d e n Z e i t p u n k t , w e n n J e n e b e g i n n e n , i n d e n D o r f f u e r s i e z u s c h a u e n , i m m e r z u s o f o r t o f f e n s i c h t l i c h . J e n e s o l l t e n z u e r s t e i n e n H i n s c h a u e n h e r a u f a l l d i e v e r f u e g b a r e n m i t I h r e r e i g e n e n s e l t s a m e n L a g e i m K o p f w e r f e n . W o l l e n J e n e d a n a c h e i n e W a h l m o e g l i c h k e i t a u f b a u e n d h e r a u f d e m R u f j e n e r E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k e n g e s e l l s c h a f t f e r n e r d e n B e d i n g u n g e n d e s d e a l . s t r e f f e n
E s g i b t z u v i e l e D i n g e , w e l c h e m i t e i n e r E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k i n k e i n e r w e i s e m i t O r d n u n g g e h e n b r i n g e n , s o f e r n S i e w e l c h e V e r t r a g s v e r e i n b a r u n g i n k e i n e r w e i s e s e h r g u t a n s e h e n . S i e k o n n t e n I h n e n e i n i g e s c h w i e r i g e B e d i n g u n g e n s e r v i e r e n , f e r n e r S i e w u e r d e n s i e g e r a d e s c h l u c k e n . E r f a s s e n J e n e j e n e D o k u m e n t e m i t D e t a i l . I n s p i z i e r e n
S i e u m z i e h e n n i c h t g e r a d e i n d i e H y p o t h e k e n b a n k , b i t t e n S i e u m d i e E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k u n d S p a z i e r g a n g z u H a u s e v i a i h r , i m u e b r i g e n s o f e r n s i e w o l l e n , f a l l s J e n e d e n k e n , d a s s d a s w i e i s t , e s f u n k t i o n i e r t . H i n z u g e f u e g t a l l e m a n s o n s t e n , m u e s s e n S i e p r o b i e r e n , z u b e r e c h n e n , d e n n m a s s e n w e i s e J e n e g e n a u a l l e M o n a t a u f I h r e r E i g e n h e i m h y p o t h e k z u r u e c k z a h l e n . W e n n e s k e i n e k o m f o r t a b l e A b b i l d u n g i s t , p r o b i e r e n S i e , d a s d e a l . W i e d e r a u s z u h a n d e l n
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Eine Bank und / oder Kredit-Gewerkschaft erscheint die promotion guter Ort fuer Ihre Ready-Access Cash (umgangssprachlich). Kreditgenossenschaften namentlich zeigen normalerweise eine bessere Verzinsung uff ( berlinerisch ) Sparkonten (was sie "share-Konten" nennen), weil sie durch welcher Koerperschaftsteuer befreit sind und ebenfalls viele staatlichen Steuern, so dass Die police mehr Geld nach sich ziehen, euch zu loehnen, deren Mitglied. Eine weitere Einstellwert wirkt eine CD. CDs koennen "laddered". Mit anderen Worten, koennen Sie eine Rang betreffend CDs nach verschiedenen Zeitpunkten indem des Jahres bereifung - die promotion 3 Monate aus, eine 6 Monate aus, eine 9 Monate aus, usw. Je laenger Sie hinein Begriff erscheint, desto hoeher diese Rate welcher Interesse. Ebenso z. hd. ungerade-Ball Bedingungen figur 5 Monate oder 8 Monate. Manchmal werden die hoeher werden als 6 oder 9 Monate Bedingungen. Aber seien Diese vorsichtig. Diese koennen verlieren jegliche Ihre Gewinn, sowie Diese Ihre CD enden vor dem Ende seiner Amtszeit. Institutionen denn Banken und ebenfalls Kreditgenossenschaften sind sicher fuer Ihr Geld sofern Sie nicht Oberhalb das $ 250.000 Versicherten begrenzen. Die Grenze wird mittels eine perfekte Summe von verschiedenen Konten in Ihrem Namen gegruendet. Eine weitere Grenze wirkt z. hd. Ihren Ehepartner und ebenfalls man weiteren Grenzwert z. hd. alle gemeinsamen Konten eingerichtet. Dies bedeutet Gleichermassen Institutionen wie GMAC Bank, verzweifelt nach Geld sowie zahlen hohe Auszeichnungen, werden allumfassend sicher, solange Diese betrachten, dass FDIC versichert oder NCUA Veroeffentlichung. Internet-Banken in der art von INGDirect werden Gleichermassen sicher aus dem gleichen Antezedenz. Ohne den Overhead eines physischen Seitenast, zahlen manchmal Internet-Banken eine Zuschlag zu haenden Einlagen nach.
Hausratversicherung Preisvergleich
Welcher NAR-Chefvolkswirt Lawrence Yun, bekraeftigt, dass, Trotz von Immobilienmarkt ist uneben, Einholung inside welcher Tat hat begonnen. "Aber eine gute Taetigkeit, die" Yun Staaten, "muss weiter verbessert werden, um gesunde, nachhaltige Niveaus nach erreichen." Koennte diese rasche Zunahme welcher Hypothekenzinsen letzte Sieben Tage eine gute Aktivitaet Yun gesucht hatte? Welcher US-oekonom Paul Dales schlaegt so. Dale glaubt, dass eine solche starken Anstieg bezueglich Rock Bottom Kaufpreise koennen scheuchen duerfte Hauskaeufer jetzt kaufen, Verriegelung rein welcher niedrigen Kaufpreise, eine gute derzeit existieren. "Es erscheint noch fair nach sagen, Erschwinglichkeit Hypothek ist hoch sowie Hypothekenfinanzierung wirkt billig", bestaetigt Dale. "Es ist einfach nicht so billig wie es das paar Monate war vor." Zu Einschaetzung im bereich Experten wird eine 30-jaehrige Hypothekendarlehen noch verfuegbar Etwas ueber verschiedene Verkaufsstellen wird aber immer schwieriger zu (zufaellig) begegnen und ebenfalls ueberhaupt nicht mehr mit einer Buergschaft des Bundes kommen. Jedoch, sagt Immobilien-Professor, Susan Wachter, dass eine Garantie des Bundes erforderlich wirkt, um de homogenen Kerwe (umgangssprachlich) nach erhalten. Die police sagt: "Es muss eine systemische Methode zur Verhinderung betreffend Segmentierung. Dies ist dies, was wir eine Bollwerk gegen brauchen. Denn sobald es niemals, es wird kommen." Ich hoffe, dass ihr Die seid eine tolle Sieben Tage und ausserdem dass Ihr Jahr war fantastisch so weit. Als wir rein eine perfekte Fruehjahrssaison Kopf, hoffentlich beruhigt sich dies Wetter uff ( berlinerisch ) der ganzen Welt! Ich werde darueber philosophieren, einige aenderungen within der Be Finanzierung Smart im Jahr 2011 Gegend: Inland Empire Praedestination Angeles, CA 90048 Vereinigte Staaten durch Amerika Hypotheken-Industrie, dass ich auf dem Kaste der Angebote beruehrt einander ziehen, jedoch das paar neue Dinge will ich Ihre Aufmerksamkeit aufwaerts das Gasthaus ebenso telefonisch.
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Hypothekenzinsen einander ziehen schnell und ausserdem heftig rein diesem Im Jahre gestiegen. Seit heute morgen sind Hypothekarzinsen hoeher Etwas ueber 9 aufeinander folgenden Tagen, Kennzeichnung welcher laengsten Hypozins Durststrecke in den letzten 6 Jahren, mindestens. Fuer den fall dass Sie (sich) einbilden, Ihre Hypothek wirkt wirklich hoch rein diesem Kirmes, in Kontakt mit dem Kredit Officer Ihre gesamte Optionen zu pruefen. Wenn Auszeichnungen gar nicht tatsaechlich erreichen 4,500%, erscheint es leicht zu refinanzieren erneut later.Finanzierung Kaufpreise immer wieder (jemandem) nachsetzen eine perfekte Ausbeute innerhalb welcher 10-jaehrige Treasury Note. Haendler sind dies Anbringen zusaetzlicher Geld in Schatzobligationen, besorgt, dass Libyen Aufstand wird Benzin kostet Laenger als 100 Dollar pro Barrel oder nicht gesund Verbraucher zahlt weiter. Die hat gute Renditen abgesackt Financial Times Schriftsteller John Kay, Verlagswesen den ganz anderen Tag zu Risiko-Modellierer, bezeichnete sie als "Alchimisten und ausserdem Quacksalber." Es gibt wirklich keine Kontrolle der Wissenschaft inside den Wirtschaftswissenschaften, keine Chance nach halten den Rest konstant um den Einfluss von ausschliesslich einer Variablen, keine Gestaltungsoption, Schlussfolgerungen nach faelschen, dass Modelle aus Spucke zu feststellen. Diese finanzielle GAU, die in dem fach Juli 2007 begonnen hat, eine gute finanziellen Aufzeichnungen reformiert. Gute Krise begann mit den Subprime-Hypothekenmarkt sowie diese umfangreiche Nutzung der Hebelkraft
Sofortkredit ohne Schufa
|Gegenseitig um solche Darlehen nach bewerben, wird leichter mittels Online-Option. Sie selbst gibt Ihnen ebenso eine Szene z . hd . das Vergleichen Ein Darlehenszitate aufgrund von Zinssaetzen gleichwohl Rueckzahlungsbedingungen. Bewerbungsbogen sollte mit passender Schalter denn Namen, Note und ausserdem anderer Kontaktinformation, erforderlicher Kreditsumme, Wert und oder Eigenkapital im kollateralen, Wohnstatus gefuellt werden, einige Verleiher koennen Sie persoenlich nach dem Absicht des Darlehens fragen, das betreffend ihren Politiken abhaengt. Falls der Verleiher wirkt, erfuellt mit Ihrer Bewerbung er verarbeitet Ihren Kreditantrag. Er dauert kaum 12 bis 15 Tage, diese Kreditzusage nach bekommen. Mit frau kreditunwuerdigen gesicherten Privatdarlehen sind sie bereit Sie selbst Ihre Traeume bestimmt mit richtiger finanzieller Beratung sichern.
|Ihr Kreditspielstand wird betreffend Kreditwuerdigkeitsagenturen nachdem Experian, Transunion und ebenfalls Equifax berechnet. Solchen Spielstand bekommen, den Auch sie brauchen, um so Agenturen Nen freund Betrag zu bezahlen. Etwas neuem wirkt ein Schuldenkonsolidierungsdarlehen? Denn verbessert er Ihren Kreditspielstand? Schuldenkonsolidierungsanleiheangebote, zu denen Sie selbst finanzieren, raeumen Ihre vorhandenen Verdanken dadurch ab, dass Sie selbst Sie selbst abzahlen. Es wirkt bezueglich 2 Typen: gesichert gleichwohl nicht gesichert. Ein beste Teil der Darlehen wirkt der Zinssatz, einer lange genug ist, um zu Ihrer Tasche leicht nach passen. Generell Ihr Kreditspielstand betroffen wird, sowie Sie rein ein Boegen Papier (Buchbinden) werden, Bezuege fristgemaess nach machen, und ausserdem Ihre Verdanken in Nummern reduziert sind, gibt er Ihrem Spielstand automatisch eine positive Zunahme. Als kann ich mich um Online-Schuldenkonsolidierungsagenturen bewerben?
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How novel, a bunch of Jew-hating Arabs talking about how THEY were the first Christians. Time for a wakeup call: The "first Christians" were ALL Jews. Funny how that tiny fact gets ignored as you scream about evil Evangelical Christians daring to- perish the thought- speak about Jerusalem belonging to Jews.
You are citizens of an artificial nation created by Colonialist masters who installed a Hejazi family as the monarchy and here you are talking about "what" belongs to "who." Hubris.
Jordan itself belongs to the Jews. In 1920 the League of Nations gave it, Gaza, the so called "West Bank" AND Israel TO THE JEWS in its entierty. Britain was then assigned as trustee and illegaly severed everything west of the Jordan River, Ethnically Cleansed it of Jews and handed it to the Shariff of Mecca, 'Ali Hussein al Hashemi, who installed his son Abdullah as King, your first monarch.
Jordan is a sham, an affront to history and common sense. But take heart, Jews do not want it now. It will become "Palestine," another nation that has never existed.
Rachamim Ben Ami
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